Episode Show Notes
Welcome to the Pilates Diaries Podcast.
On this episode we’re joined by Lisa Westlake. Lisa is a Physiotherapist and fitness leader and is the Owner and Director of Physical Best. Lisa was inducted into the Fitness Industry Roll of Honor in 2017, after being awarded Australian Fitness Leader of the Year in 2000, Fitness Presenter of the Year in 2003 and Author of the Year for the Fitness Industry in 2009. Lisa is also a regular on ABC Radio as the Saturday morning fitness specialist and Physiotherapist, and runs a local community radio on the Mornington Peninsula.
The mission of this podcast is to share the stories of the impact of Pilates to help you live and move with more joy, physical vitality, and renewed vigor.
Pilates was a somewhat unknown word until it started creeping into conversation somewhere around the 2000s- maybe even before then depending on who you asked and amongst which circles, and has largely remained and enigma for many reasons- one of which perhaps is that Pilates really has to be experienced to be understood.
There are now a wide range of Pilates styles available when you attend a Pilates class, perhaps borne from the variation of interpretations of how Pilates was originally taught by its founder, Joseph Pilates.
With The Pilates Diaries Podcast we’re inviting Pilates enthusiasts around the globe to share with us what they’ve noted down in their Pilates Diary. Our hope is that the Pilates Diaries Podcast goes some way to answering the question ” What is it that makes Pilates so special?”
We’ll take a privileged peek into the Pilates Diaries of our guests to gain a greater insight into the impact Pilates can have in all of our lives and contribute to the health and wellbeing of the community at large.
I welcome you along for the journey and welcome your comments and discussions through the links found on your favorite podcast platform. Enjoy.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] In the spirit of respect, The Pilates Diaries Podcast acknowledges the people and elders of the Bunurong people, members of the Kulin Nation, who have traditional connections and responsibilities for the land on which this podcast is produced.
Hi, I’m Bruce Hildebrand and this is the Pilates Diaries Podcast.
The mission of this podcast is to share the stories of the impact of Pilates. We’re inviting Pilates enthusiasts to [00:00:30] share with us the notes they’ve taken down in their Pilates journey as we seek out the answers to the intrigue Pilates has been able to ignite inside millions all over the world. Our hope is that The Pilates Diaries Podcast goes some way to answering the question " What is it that makes Pilates so special?" Join me for privileged peek into this episodes Pilates Diary.
On this episode we’re joined by Lisa Westlake. Lisa is a Physiotherapist and fitness leader and is the Owner and Director [00:01:00] of Physical Best. Lisa was inducted into the Fitness Industry Roll of Honor, in 2017, after being awarded Australian Fitness Leader of the Year in 2000, Fitness Presenter of the Year in 2003 and Author of the Year for the Fitness Industry in 2009. Lisa’s also a regular on ABC Radio for many years as the Saturday morning fitness specialist and Physiotherapists, and now runs a local community radio on the Mornington Peninsula. Lisa, welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks Bruce thanks for having me. [00:01:30]
Lisa, we’ll begin by taking a look back. Can you tell us about life before Pilates? What were your pursuits? Where did you see yourself heading at the time? And in hindsight, what do you now see were some little threads that might’ve led you to discover Pilates?
When I was first in the world of Physiotherapy- when I was a Physio student, I discovered aerobics and that’s really how I get to be here today. The aerobics world was very new- they were doing pretty crazy things back then in the mid eighties! Oh my goodness, there were some weird things happening, but I thought it was a bit of fun. [00:02:00] So I got a part-time job at a gym- or an aerobic studio- and that led me into the fitness world. Then I combined Physio and fitness. I was a Physio in the Road Trauma Unit at the Alfred by day, and I started teaching aerobics- or group exercise we call it now- by night and on the weekends. So that led me on a little journey into the fitness industry and it was through the fitness industry in the late nineties, early two thousands that I [00:02:30] discovered Pilates.
The interesting thing for me, that’s I think quite relevant to my experience of Pilates is by then I was already combining my knowledge and my learning as a Physio with my teaching as a fitness instructor. So the natural progress was for me to embrace Pilates because to me that’s a little bit what Pilates is- Physio and fitness instruction unite. So in answer to your question before Pilates I was [00:03:00] teaching group exercise and a whole different range of them in flouro lycra and legwarmers.
Lisa, I recall back in a gymnasium in Malvern in the inner south-eastern suburbs of Melbourne attending a fit-ball class. I’m pretty sure it was you doing some really interesting and new movements with a fit ball involved. It was a blend of a dance class, which was unusual for me having no dance skills to speak of, but I remember the class quite clearly. So like, you’re just talking about Pilates for you was this [00:03:30] obvious link between what Physio does what fitness does and bringing it all together.
You are absolutely spot-on – it was me- that was at Recreation in Armadale and they were the first gym in Australia to embrace the concept of running an exercise class on a Swiss ball. That was in 19 95, 96 and it was absolutely the bridge for me between fitness and Physio and Pilates because it began as a [00:04:00] Physiotherapy class. It began as a class called Backs and Balls- we ended up changing the name to Back in Action- but it was a back therapy class and this was before I did any Pilates training before I really heard much about Pilates and the content of that class included mobility, core awareness and recruitment, postural muscle strengthening and flexibility. So they are some of the elements that are so Pilates orientated, aren’t they- and that class really [00:04:30] did marry up Physiotherapy and fitness training. And it was really interesting because in the beginning people with back problems came to the class, but along the way more and more people came just because they liked that style of class and that is probably what made me realize that I could learn more from studying some Pilates- you’re right that was definitely the bridging of the gap.
And if I look back at the timing of that it was across the time that I was studying my sports science degree and I’d stumbled across Pilates late [00:05:00] 95, early 96. So I was probably on the lookout for similar things and it probably spoke to me exactly in that way, the way that you were presenting- even though it might not have immediately fallen under the Pilates banner- it was very much that. And the parallel that I see Lisa is that Joseph Pilates- what I understand about the historical development of the methodology is he knew lots of great things and he brought it together to make his methodology. And I see a parallel there with you knowing lots of things from your Physiotherapy and your fitness involvement, and just joining the dots with lots of logical [00:05:30] things.
It’s interesting because the big, large Swiss ball or fit ball, whatever you want to call them now the big ball that we’ve exercised on- they’re not so strange now, but they were pretty brave new world back then- but the ball enhanced it, the ball made it easier to get the flow, to get the mobility to find that biofeedback when people weren’t stabilizing and balancing well. So it was a great natural progression. But the other thing that you say that really resonates with me is a lot of the things that I did early [00:06:00] on in the fit-ball world, I just intuitively believed they were good, and people were telling me, wow, this is really helping my back. I’m really feeling strong. I’m really feeling mobile or stronger on the inside and all those things that we go "oh yeah!" now, but then it was a bit new to me. And when I went and studied Pilates it was like " Oh, okay. That’s why that worked- it was almost like learning the theory after the practice and the practice- a lot of it was gut feeling and exploring- the other Physio and [00:06:30] I, when we started these classes, we’d play around in our lounge room and go " What would it be like if you sat on a ball and maintained long spine in neutral spine and tried to move one leg?" "Oh, that’s a really good core exercise!" And then later I learned why that worked. So Pilates complimented it for me and almost gave me the theory to back up what I’d been making up in my lounge room.
What a fascinating story to hear, and I think it speaks volumes to you being recognized with these leadership awards throughout the fitness industry [00:07:00] is really taking that leap and applying a lot of your pioneering knowledge Lisa.
It was a lot of fun- I think the most fun thing I’ve had out of all of this is uniting techniques. Now more formally Pilates Swiss ball. Physio-therapy, mobility, I love just bringing it all in all into one and then seeing what we get.
And you and I have crossed paths in lots of different ways over the years, including during flying trapeze classes, which you actually introduced me to many years [00:07:30] ago. If that doesn’t sum up a fun activity, I don’t know what does- it’s one of my favorite things to participate in that’s speaks of incredible joy during participating in physical activity!
Fun, fitness, and fear unite. I still love it. I still do it when I can- it’s still my passion!
You’ve always had joy or simple things like being your physical best, which you’ve obviously captured as your business name as a simple philosophy to staying active and fit during your life.
Yeah, Physical Best evolved around the [00:08:00] same time that we’re talking- I gave up full-time hospital work in the mid nineties to develop Physical Best and the whole rationale and philosophy behind Physical Best is that anyone can benefit from exercise if we understand what exercise is right for that person. So I’m going back to when I was working in intensive care and maybe the best a patient could do would be wriggle their toes, or we could be talking about an elite athlete and some of the things we would give to an elite athlete, the everyday [00:08:30] person, it would be dangerous for them! Or maybe I’m talking about a pregnant woman with a sacroiliac problem or someone with a knee problem or Parkinson’s, everyone can benefit from exercise and attain their physical best. I really believe that anyone can achieve their physical best if their instructor really understands their condition and their needs and that’s one of the areas I think Pilates is really strong.
Lisa, can you tell me a [00:09:00] story of when you first officially arrived at Pilates- we’ve just talked about it being a pretty intuitive thing for you, and it was certainly a merging of lots of parts of what you’d learned and what you’d applied. Can you tell us about when you first arrived at Pilates officially?
Vividly remember, I was very involved for many, many years- and I still am- with the Australian Fitness Network and FILEX, which is Australia’s biggest fitness convention, as you would know. And of course there were the [00:09:30] beginnings of Pilates presentations at conferences like FILEX back then. And I was also traveling a lot and I got to see a lot of presentations overseas as well. And in particular I stumbled across Michael King from the UK and he ran a four day Pilates mat course which I did back in I think 2001. And so it was really learning about it through conferences and my travels and experiences as a presenter, [00:10:00] trying other presenters classes where I discovered it and I thought Oh gosh, I really resonate with Pilates. Now I’m going to go and find out more. And I did do a very simple course. I have great regard for the longer courses, but my first experience was a very short four days and I loved it. And that was in Sydney.
Excellent. And what were some of your first impressions of Pilates? And of Michael one of your early teachers and other people in the class and even the perceptions of other people in your life when you told them that you’d [00:10:30] begun this thing called Pilates.
Well, it’s funny that you asked that. I, firstly I loved back then and I still adore Michael King. I think he’s a wonderful person, a wonderful Pilates guru in my life anyway and I really look up to him and his partner Malcolm and all the wonderful instructors that he has on board. I loved the way he taught and what he taught back then and I still do. The people in the course were a lot of fellow presenters, there were a lot of instructors that I already [00:11:00] knew through my work with Australian Fitness Network and FILEX- I vividly remember I was training in the same courses, Liz Dean, who was a very big part of Australian Fitness Network back then- and others like her. And I feel like most of the people in that course were fitness instructors, but they were aware and they were inquirous and they had inquiring minds and they cared about quality rather than let’s just go hard and fast and what’s the next fad- they really cared about the quality of our movement [00:11:30] instruction.
The actual course, I’ve got to tell you I loved it, but some of Joseph Pilates’ original moves shocked me! Horrified me as a Physiotherapist I was quite horrified that we did a few things that were very similar to what I felt had been contraindicated from the aerobics room a few years earlier- double straight leg raises would be an example, and some of the things that were a bit more extreme in Josephs’ original moves. So that was me being the [00:12:00] conservative Physiotherapist. But overall as a fitness instructor and as a young person with a whole lifetime ahead of teaching movement I was really excited about what I learnt about the principles of Pilates and it was very confirming for me. It was very confirming that I was on the right track myself. I think when I came back from studying the Pilates- it was only a four day course fellow instructors in gyms like the one you talked about before in [00:12:30] Malvern where we had the fitball, I think they were just really interested and inspired and maybe a little bit envious and interested themselves.
We have some parallels there again, which I didn’t know about before today, despite us knowing each other for a number of years is I also participated in a workshop with Michael King, albeit in a conference in the UK- his home country, of course that was very early in my Pilates as well in, my time in the UK and Michael presented it a local Pilates conference over there. And I distinctly remember, like you [00:13:00] say, very memorable presenter, very knowledgeable presenter, and hugely passionate for the industry as well.
So passionate. It’s interesting that you say that too, because I think my next injection of Pilates instruction was I was invited by Michael to go over and present at one of his conferences so of course I had that wonderful immersion over in the UK where around the times where I was speaking, I think I did six presentations in three days, but every other moment of that conference, I was just [00:13:30] drinking up all that knowledge from Michael and some of his other wonderful instructors and master trainers that he had back then. And so that was probably my next fantastic experience.
How exciting- what an opportunity.
It sure was!
Can you tell us Lisa, the experience of when you first noticed that Pilates was really starting to have an impact on your life? What were some of the new experiences in your body? Even some things that you didn’t like, or you didn’t want to accept about the way that you would have to learn to move [00:14:00] differently, by pursuing this challenging exercise of Pilates?
I think there were two elements there that fit with this question, Bruce- the first is I thought that I had a good awareness of movement in my own body. I certainly felt like I could teach things like core recruitment and pelvic floor but then I realized that actually I wasn’t as strong as I thought to do some of those more advanced moves. There were some I didn’t know I ever wanted to do- I’ll be honest- I didn’t [00:14:30] know if I cared because I actually thought they were a bit out there maybe even unsafe, but as you know, what I’ve said is it’s all so individual isn’t it! And even group exercise is a group of individuals and so we need to custom design for each person. But yes, I had to rethink my ability to find that core strength and stability to then superimpose some of those more advanced movements, whether that was [00:15:00] advanced because of the lever length, like a double straight leg rise or the speed or the complexity of the movements. So even though as a Physio I thought I had a really good awareness, good posture, good core I needed to, and I did learn a new layer to do that and it did take me further in my own personal strength. So I do feel like I have much stronger foundation now to still be able to do things like flying trapeze at my age- I’m no spring [00:15:30] chicken and I’m still flying through the air, not with the greatest of ease. The second element to your question is what I quickly learned after my little four day Mat class and my immersion over in London was that there was so much more to Pilates than I realised! There is so much more than mat work! For example the trapeze the barrel, the Pilates chair, the magic circle. This was a whole new world to me and I have not followed the path that you [00:16:00] have, and I don’t have all of that experience- but I certainly realized how far you could take it and how exciting- I mean seriously, if you want to be a really complete and thorough and comprehensive Pilates instructor- I I think it’s quite amazing! For me, I haven’t gone down that pathway. I’m very passionate about Mat Pilates. I did do a Reformer course- a three week Reformer course- and loved it, I think it’s wonderful, but still, I don’t [00:16:30] think I have the experience to teach it at the level I would like to. So I’m happy to have enjoyed that and learnt about it and understand it. And of course the other thing for me is I still love to combine the Pilates and the fit ball and do my Pilates on the ball classes but I really realize how much there is to Pilates and how you can apply it to just like I was saying about Physical Best to anyone of any ability, but it takes a lot, it takes a lot of thought and a lot of analysis of individual movement [00:17:00] and ability. And I really feel like I’ve touched the tip of the iceberg, but the principles of Pilates- posture, breath, core mobility, et cetera, they are in everything I do.
That’s pretty profound to say that little statement just then- and along those lines I think Lisa you’re an amazing example of where Pilates can have many different applications- it doesn’t have to be the purest thing, it doesn’t have to be the most superficial thing- it can be everything in between really. And I think [00:17:30] for you, the thing that jumps out at me is you’ve only got one 24 hours in every day and how you choose to use that and apply various things, I think it’s testament to where you’ve chosen to apply and share your knowledge across the board.
Well, it marries up for me and really you’re making me realize I had never actually thought this through formally until this very moment- I always have loved using my Physiotherapy in my exercise prescription and instruction, but everything I do- whether I’m teaching [00:18:00] eighties aerobics, which is popular at the moment or drumming- I do drum fit classes- or high energy or gentler classes everything I do has those principles being woven into it and for me personally, that’s probably the magic of what I’ve got out of the Pilates and the Physio. I’m not trying to be a full time perfect Pilates instructor and I would never do that- that would be so disrespectful to the Pilates practitioners who have done the [00:18:30] one year and more training. I’m very aware of my limited formal Pilates training, but so much of it to me marries up with Physiotherapy that I, I’m comfortable with that but what I have learned from way back and as time ticks along is how important those principles are in everything we do movement wise.
And that’s one of the intentions of The Pilates Diaries Podcast is really to communicate in many different ways, Lisa, around what you and I have come to. And I think many other people as well, is [00:19:00] that the common denominator of good health and wellbeing and movement is certain principles and certain first principles around what makes something safe, what’s makes something healthy, what makes something beneficial? And I came to a similar conclusion myself early days, is that the common denominator for many movements for me, I can see the principles of Pilates apply to that so thoroughly and so beautifully- and so that was the inspiration for me to pursue that as well.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me.
Lisa, who was some of the [00:19:30] people further from Michael and a bunch of the colleagues that you referred to earlier in your time in the UK that you met along the way with your Pilates that helped to shape your Pilates experience?
My Reformer training was with Stott Pilates- a lady came out from Canada and I had three weeks with her. And whilst I have chosen at this point not to teach Reformer, I still learnt so much from her about anatomy and refining not only of [00:20:00] posture and exercise technique, but cues as an instructor, the way she queued and encouraged other people to have awareness- that was incredible. And then the other connections that I’ve had have been with Australians- I have some Physio friends who are more down the Clinical Pilates way. I have studied with Craig Phillips at Dance Medicine Australia- I did a Clinical Pilates course with him as a Physiotherapist and learned a bit more there and then some wonderful instructors. [00:20:30] The person who keeps jumping into my mind is just a beautiful Pilates instructor that I just liked to be around and absorb some of her beautiful techniques and cues was Zosha Piotrowski.
I felt really sad or even a little bit disturbed when I saw some other Pilates trainings that I saw at conferences mainly seem to want to fit into fitness too much by going hard and fast and try and appeal to the consumer instead of sticking to the [00:21:00] principles. But I think they’re the main people that have influenced me. Zosha, Craig, and the Stott Pilates instructions would just second to none.
You make a great point there I think around the queuing many Physios I’ve worked with and I’ve been very fortunate to work with Physios for the majority of my career- the thing that jumps out is the queuing that a Physio will often speak of- and I speak from a slightly different perspective, which is a sports science degree nowhere near Physiotherapy of course, but the queuing that is the connection of the [00:21:30] information across to the participant. I think that’s the thing that jumps out. Like we can all have cognitive information and learn lots of that, but the connection of what transfers it into our clients’ bodies- I think that’s like you say- the real gold that came out of that training with Stott particularly for you.
I think that’s really important and I don’t think you learn that in a course, you can get inspired and we can listen to different people and go, oh gosh, that’s a great way to say that. But I really think that finding ways to teach and particularly to [00:22:00] cue comes with practice. And the other thing is that understanding that everyone is different in how they perceive and hear a cue and then how they translate it into their own body. So they’re the visual learners and the kinesthetic learners and the auditory learners and everyone is different so we need to keep finding different ways to say the same thing. And that’s particularly so with Pilates, because so much of it is out of sight and sometimes out of mind. [00:22:30] Pelvic floor being the perfect example- we can’t see anything when we switch on the pelvic floor correctly, nor do we see anything, or should we see anything when we switch on the transversus abdominus and multifidus correctly, but it’s a feeling.
And so if those people have no idea, then we have to find a way to allow that person to understand what we want them to do, and then allow them to check in and say, yes, I think I’ve got it. And that’s a real skill and I get quite excited and [00:23:00] passionate about that because it’s a skill that’s fun to develop and just learning how to say the same thing in different ways so that our clients can get it!
Fascinating to hear you say that along the lines of being a long-term communicator and author of many books and finding the way to have your information be articulated across to your consumer across to your listener across to your reader.
You’ve been there seen that even in my trapeze, someone can say to me, do it this way, do it this way, do it this way. And then someone else walks in and goes, try [00:23:30] this- and they meant exactly the same thing, but they said it differently. And I went, oh, light bulb moment. So we just have to keep finding the light bulb moment for our clients so that they can get it- I love it- and most Pilates is instructors do that really well!
I used to use the cliche of it takes 20 different types of cues to get the message across to your client and inevitably that’s the 21st that lands. But now I usually say it takes a hundred cues and it’s the hundred and first one that lands!
It’s so true.
[00:24:00] Lisa interested to hear, as you’ve been such a long-term participant and contributer to the health and fitness industry including your time in Physiotherapy- what do you see the range of factors that have had Pilates stick around and be more than just a fad when other fitness approaches might have come and gone more so, and along those same lines what have been some of the reasons you feel like Pilates is on that list of practices that you might recommend to people when they come to you for various needs?
It’s the quality it’s there’s so many different exercise styles and I think they all [00:24:30] have something to offer. And it’s a bit of horses for courses- we have to find what we enjoy, we have to find what suits our body and some people like to go hard and fast and some people like more mindful, gentle stuff, but for Pilates it’s here to stay, especially the principles of Pilates. Some of Joseph’s original moves. I still think don’t suit everyone, but the principles of breath and posture and recruitment of the deep muscles to support the outer or more [00:25:00] peripheral movements- they’re all so important for any beautiful, healthy movement pattern. And so that marrying up of this quality and awareness it’s like mindful, aware movement that is just so powerful in allowing us to move well and to keep moving well in the presence of- or in spite of- injury, conditions, aging.
So I just think it’s got that beautiful underlying awareness and quality [00:25:30] that means there’s something in it for everyone, whether you’re trying to get back after an illness or whether you’re trying to get further as an elite athlete- those principles are going to allow you to take that journey further and in particular, allow people to keep exercising as time ticks on. And of course, some of the more "faddy" things or some of the things that are more high energy HIIT and stuff, they all have their place, but we can’t always keep doing those [00:26:00] long-term that can be a bit hard on our bodies. Whereas the right Pilates for each individual is just, we’ll be able to do that until you’re 110.
Who would’ve thought this unbelievable discovery from Joseph Pilates and like you, I think, are an example of it’s that it morphs over time, is this applying of new principals- and I’m very certain from the historical stuff that I’ve explored with Joseph Pilates is it took it really a lifetime for him to formulate all these ideas, but for the outcome to be something that can apply to so many different people at so many different [00:26:30] levels like you’re talking about, I think it’s a pretty amazing outcome.
Absolutely amazing and I think it’s quite amazing- like you know the history better than me- but didn’t he start with people in bed in the war and he started hanging things from above the bed pulley systems and so on- that was the beginning of some of the Physiotherapy techniques as well. I think probably he had a few Physio cells in his body as well as all the other circus and dancing and all the other amazing things he did!
[00:27:00] Absolutely. Lisa you touched on sometimes Pilates trying to be something else and to be perhaps a bit more hard and fast. What do you see those attempts were and where do you see they might’ve been tripped up by what was the longterm true essence of Pilates.
Yeah I saw some Pilates styles or schools or programs especially on the Reformer- they were trying to hit the fitness industry popularity. They were a little bit hard and fast- [00:27:30] like they were trying to fit in to mainstream training because the clients, especially back then in the late nineties, early two thousands, everyone wanted it to feel heavy and strong and fast, and they needed to feel the burn and feel puffed, right? So I think that some programs thought this will make our Pilates program successful in the gym situation if we make it hard and fast. Not all of them did this. And that [00:28:00] meant, all right, let’s put on the strongest resistance on the bands on the Reformer, for example. You know, almost grunt to push the Reformer. And that’s the opposite to me of what it should be about and that was losing sight of the quality movement control that we need in Pilates- and in actual fact, the lighter resistance is harder. It takes more control sometimes- moving slower takes more control sometimes. So to me, I felt like that was missing the boat that was [00:28:30] missing the wonderful opportunity of what Pilates really was.
And that instead of that, I was keener to see the Pilates programs, enhance awareness in our clients, rather than try to give the clients what they thought they needed, which was go hard and go fast and feel the burn was let’s train and educate our clients to understand that this subtle awareness and control and muscle recruitment patterns and breath would give us the amazing foundations to move ahead with our harder, [00:29:00] faster stuff. So bring them together rather than Pilates trying to be it was what I think that message came through in the end- I don’t see that as much anymore, I think we’ve come back a bit.
I don’t think there’s any need for you to be humble about your exploration into your Pilates training Lisa because you speak so purely about all the key principles of Pilates being alive and well in our communities physical participation.
I think our clients are more educated. I think instructors across the, I mean, goodness gracious our fitness community as in [00:29:30] our instructors and our fitness professionals are way more educated about all this now. And so are our clients, so are our participants, so are the people who are seeking advice about exercise. Everyone is just more aware and I think more people are embracing the importance of foundation awareness, posture, et cetera. Thank goodness, hey!
Most definitely- and that’s one of the intentions again of the podcast is to plug this in your ear for half an hour and get a sense of what to [00:30:00] go looking for with quality Pilates, and really to up the ante and ask more of your instructor when it comes to being cared for and being looked after.
And especially for me, going on a little bit of a tangent, but I think it’s really relevant is women’s health and pelvic floor- it’s just so important that we understand what we’re doing on the inside and that our instructors are aware enough of the vulnerability of some of those deeper muscles that we can’t see and we can’t measure as fitness [00:30:30] instructors in the gym situation. I mean, And how careful our questioning needs to be as instructors to check- is it appropriate to be doing heavy work or high energy work? And to always bring it back to checking in whether you’re a Pilates instructor or not that you are working at a level with your client, that is right for those deep muscles that you can’t see! So important.
Tell us more about your involvement with the Continence Foundation of Australia and Pelvic Floor First programs along [00:31:00] with Marietta and Shira as part of that program Lisa.
Yes. Shira Kramer- Shira Kramer was a student with me way back- if anyone’s looking for a great pre and postnatal program in Melbourne. Shira was a student and then we worked together and she used to instruct for me when I was in Melbourne, I used to have prenatal and postnatal classes and my back health class on the ball. And when I left Melbourne, Shira took over that practice and expanded it to Be Active Physiotherapy. She’s fantastic and Marietta Mehanni [00:31:30] too amazing fitness instructor with good knowledge. So the pelvic floor first program was an initiative by the Continence Foundation of Australia, and they became very aware that one in three women had a problem with their pelvic floor and bladder and bowel control and worse- prolapse!
And one of the biggest issues was it was two-fold exercise played a massive role in it, quite scarily high intensity exercise, heavy work and high impact exercise was making it worse. And [00:32:00] secondly many, many women who had problems didn’t know that they could do something about it or were too embarrassed to ask for help. A lot of people didn’t even know and maybe still don’t that there is such a thing as a Pelvic Floor Physio that works in this area only. So the Continence Foundation said, okay, let’s find the middleman and the middleman was the fitness instructor. So let’s reach out and develop a whole program to improve the awareness of exercise and its [00:32:30] implications on pelvic floor integrity- especially continence. And so I was asked to be involved very early on and I became an ambassador for them and then they asked for a recommendation of a fitness instructor and I recommended Marietta. So we developed programs, we developed courses for instructors, we developed apps for people. Posters that gyms can put up on their walls, pamphlets for instructors, pamphlets for clients, all to improve awareness around the [00:33:00] fact that if you do have a concern with your pelvic floor, you should modify your exercise and you can seek help and you can make a difference that it isn’t just your lot and we’re not necessarily stuck with it.
And Bruce actually there was a really interesting study by a lady called Marg Sherburn. Marg Sherburn is a Women’s Health Physio, and in my mind she’s an absolute legend in Women’s Health- she was my trainer when I was back at Physio- she taught me so much! Now she did her PhD in pelvic floor muscle [00:33:30] training for incontinence and she did a study on women participating in Pilates classes. 50% of the women in the Pilates classes were bearing down when their instruction was to recruit their pelvic floor. So that was really interesting. What that told us that you can’t always learn, correct recruitment technique of your pelvic floor, just from verbal cuing or a pamphlet. And that one-on-one [00:34:00] instruction from a Physiotherapist with an indwelling probe to measure and real-time ultrasound was the best way to do that, but it was fascinating to me that even in a Pilates class where especially then, because this is years ago, you would expect the instruction to probably be better than in your mainstream fitness class, still women weren’t quite getting it right. So that was just fascinating to me. I went off on a tangent, but it was really interesting, but yes, what they showed us was that the absolute, best thing you [00:34:30] can do to strengthen your pelvic floor in the presence of stress incontinence is individualized instruction from a continence Physio with real time ultrasound so that you can see on a screen if you’re doing it correctly. But that doesn’t mean we instructors and we Pilates practitioners don’t give it our absolute best and learn how to cue it well.
Those are really remarkable and fascinating stats Lisa that one in three that’s how common the continence challenges for women.
One in [00:35:00] three women, who’ve had a baby It might’ve even gone up a bit, one in five Australians and one in three women who have had a baby have some problem with bladder or bowel control short-term or long-term and men too- not nearly as many, but men do have problems as well with their pelvic floor function.
And if we only took one thing away from today’s conversation I think that’s such an invaluable thing to realize how common it is and to really bring that conversation forward.
And that seeking help is well worth it- because a lot of [00:35:30] people just put up with it- they’re either embarrassed or they think it’s just, that’s how it is after you’ve had a baby. If you’ve had a vaginal delivery, but there’s a lot you can do. And certainly if anyone does have the problems with continence, they should hold off on the high impact exercise and the heavy lifting until they’ve got that underlying strength. It’s never say never, you can always improve, but Marg Sherburn also taught me and this feeds really beautifully into Pilates- she had a saying that was [00:36:00] "Always exercise for the weakest link." Say I’ve got really strong arms and really strong quads and I can shoulder press with a nice wide squat, a good 10 kilos, 15 kilos, whatever it might be. I can shoulder press and squat really well, but my pelvic floor is not up for that- I can’t control my pelvic floor and recruit my pelvic floor when I’m doing that- then that weight might be fine for my arms and my legs, but not for my pelvic floor. So we should always train for the weakest [00:36:30] link. So that means I should increase the ability of my pelvic floor to do those activities or maybe activities that are less than that for my quads and my shoulders and build up slowly.
But it doesn’t mean someone with a pelvic floor problem can’t end up running or pressing 15 kilos or heavier. It just means we have to train up the weakest link to bring that up. And that’s really important with Pilates because, and Swiss ball and Aqua some of those exercise styles that are perceived as being more gentle that even [00:37:00] some of the moves in Pilates need modification for someone who can’t recruit their pelvic floor or their transversus abdominis or maintain neutral spine while they’re doing that program, which is why Pilates is so good at offering levels and guidelines to the client which level to take, rather than always going "You got to go the hardest you got to go the hardest!" No, you’ve got to go the wisest!
So beautiful. And the other amazing thing you just mentioned was around the research that 50% of women participating in [00:37:30] a Pilates class were essentially misinterpreting what I’m sure were wonderful cues, but it wasn’t made clear and that’s our critical role, I think, as Pilates instructors, and in fact, all fitness instructors is to make sure that’s part of the conversation and addressing that challenge that is very common- like you say- in both male and female populations.
Absolutely. So sometimes I think it’s handy to use the cue of "It should feel like" because we can’t see if they’re doing it correctly, like a bicep curl we can! So "It should feel [00:38:00] like" and giving them cues that allow them to assess it for themselves. Definitely important. Can you tell them a little bit passionate about this?
That’s what makes it so endearing- I think it’s great! Lisa, I’m curious to hear for yourself in particular, what are some of the changes both in your body and your mind, and even in your spirit as Joseph Pilates liked to put it that are now second nature to you in the way that you do Pilates, that you carry over into your day-to-day activities that you couldn’t have imagined were even possible before you started along [00:38:30] this line of Pilates and otherwise.
I’m definitely more aware of my posture, my recruitment of deep muscles to stabilize, not only in the lumbar spine and the pelvic floor, but around the shoulder, girdle around the knee and the ankle and hip, I’m definitely aware of that more in myself, but the thing that Pilates has helped me to evolve and made me feel quite passionate and excited about in my world is how I teach, how I cue. I just [00:39:00] love helping people get the finer detail and that really lifts my spirit to be honest and seeing people- look at them and they go " Oops! Shoulders down" or "Oops! Lengthen the spine!" and you just look at them and they go "Yeah, we know what that Lisa woman wants!" That makes me pretty happy. Yeah. The quality, the confidence in the quality that is reinforced by the Pilates principles is very spirit lifting.
And Lisa, where do you now sit with your Pilates? How much do you see [00:39:30] Pilates being part of your future and what plans do you have instore with Pilates involvement? Is there more books hidden there that are going to elaborate on Pilates or otherwise?
I would never write a book on Pilates because I’ve done a four day course and a three-week course, and a little bit of time with Michael and a two day with Craig that doesn’t qualify me to write a book, but I will always incorporate the principles I have got the four books- two of my books are on training on an exercise ball and the next two books that I wrote [00:40:00] are about prenatal and postnatal exercise- that’s "Exercising For Two" and " Mum’s Shape Up" – they all had a whole lot of Pilates principles, underlying everything I did, everything I wrote in those books. If I do write another one it would be exercise for older adults and I would include lots of it, but I would never formally include Pilates, like a chapter on Pilates because I don’t consider myself having trained enough. The other thing I’m really interested in Bruce is [00:40:30] more the standing Pilates- so the barre stuff, I actually have done a barre course. I love all that standing work at the moment so I’m thinking about doing a bit more training in that area. And to me barre, I know it’s ballet and gosh, if you ever saw me do it, you’d know I’d never done ballet as a kid, but the principles of it, I just love it. The postural awareness, the core work in standing it’s quite exciting. So I think I might do that next
And what else does the future hold for you? You’re[00:41:00] running courses- you’ve done plenty of presenting internationally, regular retreats, both here and overseas. What other programs are you’re working on that expand into this delivery of these great principles Lisa?
There’s two areas there- one is I was doing health retreats- health retreats with cocktails and dessert because life’s about balance and they were called "Health and Harmony". The last one that we were going to do was cancelled of course- we all know why- was to be at the Maldives. So they always have Pilates style classes [00:41:30] every day- whether it’s on the ball or on the mat- amongst some of the other stuff like drumming and art and craft and aqua aerobics and some hula hooping and fun things like that. We have a lot of fun and there’s the quality and the postural awareness program in amongst the fun frivolous stuff but it all has awareness- just, they don’t always notice. So I want to get them up and running again when we’re allowed, but I’m looking at the moment for locations within Australia or we even within Victoria, because travel is so compromised. [00:42:00] So I’m working on that. The other thing is I’m doing lots of virtual stuff, so I just finished some work last year with Vic Health- Victoria Government had a grant and I worked with Mish Wright at COTA- Council Of The Aging. And we did a series of 15 exercise programs for older adults, which are on the Victoria Together website and most of them are very Pilates orientated. Most of them, there were two instructors and the second instructor was usually giving chair based options, so it was really [00:42:30] targeted to people of different levels and abilities, which I’m always proud to do.
So I guess the other thing that’s new for me is exploring this virtual world because I think I’m allergic to technology. I’m not a fan but I’m learning to like it, and I’m learning to realize its possibilities. I’m running a lot of volunteer classes at the moment and people are very grateful for them. So I guess that’s another way that we can reach out with these quality Pilates based [00:43:00] messages to people about healthy movement and wise movement. So probably exploring more " Health and Harmonies" and dare I say more virtual- I can’t believe I’m saying that- but here we are in this world.
Exactly. And Lisa, a bit of advice- what do you wish you knew at the start of the journey- whether it be specifically with Pilates or other similar exercise approaches that would make the biggest difference to those who might be considering starting Pilates or facing some of the struggles that you [00:43:30] might have along the way with your Pilates progress.
My advice would be that when people who are already teaching fitness, look at Pilates and maybe they are teaching things that are quite different to Pilates- HIIT and weight training, and some of the more traditional high energy stuff- that they look at Pilates as an opportunity to improve the instruction of what they’re doing now, rather than thinking if I do apply this course, then I [00:44:00] have to teach a Pilates Mat class. To understand the amazing value of studying these underlying principles and what they’ll give to them as an instructor across the board, whatever they’re teaching.
Can I put an exclamation mark on that? Lisa, it’s been fantastic chatting with you on the call today. Thanks so much for your time. What’s the best way for podcast listeners to get in touch with you?
The easiest one is lisa@physicalbest.com or [00:44:30] checking out the website Physical Best. Bruce, thank you so much- it’s been a lot of fun!
Thanks, Lisa. It’s been a joy as always chatting with you. I look forward to chatting the next time we do.
Thank you very much. Bye
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